Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

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Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

Post  ZEUS10 on Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:25 pm

According to the ancient writters(if not manipulated), it has been a land called Greece, whose name was Pelasgia previously. We know lots about the people who inhabitated that land(if sources not manipulated). Nevertheles, it's not clear what is the definition of "Greece" and "Greeks" during ancient times. Its not clear how different they were from their neighbours Illyrians, Thracians, Macedonians, Epirotes etc. Our goal is to identify them among other ethnic groups, before the so called ""Greek Revolution", because there is something fishy about them, their history looks has been made up, somehow.

We have a Late ancient map which shows Roman' Prefectures in that area:



but doesnt give to us an ethnic description.

So let's start from the earlier medieval times.

476 AD


It's clear that administrative ""Greece"" is been absorbed within the Roman Prefecterum called Illyricum(a name derived from the nation called Illyrians).


Last edited by ZEUS10 on Mon Mar 02, 2009 9:24 am; edited 5 times in total

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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

Post  ZEUS10 on Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:33 pm

The situation remains the same for many years:

500 AD



526AD



600AD



But since these maps are just administrative ones they don't give any clear indication about ethnic identity of the inhabitands on the territorry we're analizing.

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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

Post  ZEUS10 on Wed Feb 18, 2009 3:41 pm

On 800 AD a new name shows up , it's been called MOREA:



What is this land? This is exactly the ancient Achaea:



This is the beloved Arbanian(Albanian) land whose Arbanians sing such lovely songs(at least 600 years old):


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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

Post  ZEUS10 on Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:02 pm

If we look at the Herodotus map we can locate this Achaea exactly the same place as Morea.



But whats interesting about this map is that being an ethnographic map it doesn't differ that much from the above Roman's administative maps. That means that the so called Greeks are just an ethnic extension of the Illyrians and not a distinct ethnic group.
The term Achaea has still been used in the late medieval ethnographic maps to show the Morea region.
But, let's continue with the maps.
Starting from 1000 AD in any ethnographical maps we find Albanians presence sometime called Epirotes which is a name used by the Latins for the Albanians. But we nowhere could find the name Greeks. These people is just a phantomatic nation during the medieval times:


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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

Post  ZEUS10 on Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:17 pm

Not long before Turkish invasion, and after it, we always find Albanians, but we never find Greeks at least not ethnically defined:

1401


1672


Instead of Greeks we find:
LIVADIA
MOREA
THESALIA
which we have overhelming evidences for, that the inhabitants were mostly Albanians and then Vlachs, Slavics, Turkish but never ever Greeks, except a network of Greek speaking merchants.

We always find them close to Costantinople which was their religious center, that means that GREEK is a religious affiliation and not a ethnic one. Neither the name Greeks nor the Greek language (which was the language picked up from Herakleios(c. 575 - February 11, 641) a Byzantine Emperor for his empire various services such as commerce, diplomacy, religion etc) represents the real inhabitants/language of that land.

1741


Last edited by ZEUS10 on Fri Feb 20, 2009 3:28 pm; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

Post  ZEUS10 on Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:58 pm

Before 1800 Albanians or Epirotes are always there, the Greeks not. The maps always show territores inhabited mainly by the Albanians(Livadia, Morea and Thesaly)

1519


1598


1672


1750


1794


1800


Last edited by ZEUS10 on Mon Mar 23, 2009 10:09 am; edited 2 times in total

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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

Post  ZEUS10 on Wed Feb 18, 2009 5:18 pm

After 1800 sometimes the """Greeks""" start showing up , and sometimes they dont.

1816(not yet Greeks)


1834( for the first time we have Greece)(because it's the time after state creation)


1850

If we look carefully the above map there are no Greeks in Epirus, Peloponessus and Attika.

1853


1861


what about Greeks?--Yes the state is created but without Greeks(!!!!) Why? Because
Morea inhabitated mainly by Albanians & some other minorities(but not Greeks)
Livadia Inhabitated mainly by Albanians & >>>>>>>>>>>>>
Epirus inhabitated by Albanians & Vlachs &>>>>>>>>
Attica inhabitated by the Albanians



The maps show no Greeks in the land of the Ancient Greeks. They show Albanians instead. The real "family hearth" of the Greeks is Costantinople(where their religion originates) but not Morea, not Livadia, not Thesaly, not Epirus. These are ARBANIAN LANDS. All the historical centers of the so called Ancient Greece like: Sparta, Theba, Argos are still surrounded nowdays from arvanites communities, who still speak their original ""ancient greek"" language which means Arvanite, and follow their original "ancient greek" traditions which means Albanian ones.

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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

Post  Socio on Sat Feb 28, 2009 5:19 am

In 1770 - by Homman Heirs



Clik on image and zoom +

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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

Post  ZEUS10 on Sat Feb 28, 2009 10:52 am

Thanks Socio.
I created a picture out of your great gadget & map


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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

Post  ZEUS10 on Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:06 am

They call it Greece but what you see in 1752 is only Morea(Albanian name for Achaea) and Livadia(Livadhia-Albanian name for the pasture):


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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

Post  ZEUS10 on Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:14 am

In regards to 'Albania proper dicti' its border in 1752 were way far beyond the actual ones.

Albania 1752


Albania 2009

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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

Post  ZEUS10 on Sat Feb 28, 2009 11:30 am

If someone of you is not convinced yet about Morea this map shows beyond any doubt that its population was entirely Albanian one(ethnographic map).



We must not forget that Morea (Peloponessus) was the cradle of the so called "ancient Greek civilisation".



Now you can draw your conclusion how "Greek" it has been.

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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

Post  Socio on Sun Apr 19, 2009 4:35 am

Why did they call it first, even officially, ALBANIA, and did not recognize it as such later ?!!!!!!



1. http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~36153~1200541:Map-of-Albania---1824-?qvq=q:albania;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=0&trs=32

'MAP OF ALBANIA' by John Melish, 1824 (click and zoom +)



2. http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~21924~690016:-Neueste-Special-&-Kriegs-Karte-der?qvq=q:albania;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=30&trs=32

A L B A N I E N by Joseph. J. Grassl, 1860 (click and zoom +)











For more maps of Albania: http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/view/search;jsessionid=64A6824E18C42D9BCF9DBABAE8A92339?q=albania&search=Search

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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

Post  ZEUS10 on Sun Apr 19, 2009 8:24 am

Socio wrote:Why did they call it first, even officially, ALBANIA, and did not recognize it as such later ?!!!!!!



1. http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~36153~1200541:Map-of-Albania---1824-?qvq=q:albania;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=0&trs=32

'MAP OF ALBANIA' by John Melish, 1824 (click and zoom +)



2. http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~21924~690016:-Neueste-Special-&-Kriegs-Karte-der?qvq=q:albania;lc:RUMSEY~8~1&mi=30&trs=32

A L B A N I E N by Joseph. J. Grassl, 1860 (click and zoom +)











For more maps of Albania: http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/view/search;jsessionid=64A6824E18C42D9BCF9DBABAE8A92339?q=albania&search=Search

Thank you Socio, one thing that pulled my attention in your flux was the name Albassan and not Elbasan.



I think that Elbasan is the turkish version of this name and his original version like it clearly looks in the map is ALBAS-an, which in roman language means :the white city and is related to the name of the whole country ALBA-nia.

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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

Post  seastone on Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:44 am

ZEUS10 wrote:But whats interesting about this map is that being an ethnographic map it doesn't differ that much from the above Roman's administative maps. That means that the so called Greeks are just an ethnic extension of the Illyrians and not a distinct ethnic group
That's what I believe is closer to the truth.

ZEUS10 wrote:They call it Greece but what you see in 1752 is only Morea(Albanian name for Achaea) and Livadia(Livadhia-Albanian name for the pasture)
In the 1752 Vaugondy Map it never says Greece. The description on the map says european Turkey,(it has Morea, Livadia, Macedonia with Janinna, Bulgaria, etc). So it should be up to us to "translate" it. You can see if you choose Albania as a whole country, Levadia as another...I don't choose to do so, all I see are regions. At that time (according to this map) there is no united Greece. And for the Turks it doesn't matter. The use of albanian names shows to me how much close the regions (Albania, Morea, Levadia...) and most of all the people at that time were. I'm sure there were very little differences, as albanians-arvanites were the majority of their inhabitants, and I'm sure there wasn't any difference between arvanites and albanians at that time. IMO the differences were brought up later (or created because of interests) at a religious basis.
I hope I don't offend anybody, I'm trying to understand what makes the most sence.

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Re: Why do we call it Greece while it's Albanian land?

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